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Tue, Jun. 21st, 2005, 08:03 pm
lisacharly: Stop killing the B-list already!

No journals and we already have six frequent customers. Quite a tally.

Alright, so, deaths in comics. It's not deaths that bug me. I'm all for the occasional tear-jerking goodbye, the death that has a lasting repercussion and brings the team to their knees.

It's deaths done to make a story seem serious that piss me off. Like Northstar's death in Wolverine. What the hell was up with that? At least Nunzio and Christina did something interesting with it afterwards, but we all know gutting JP was thrown in just to make that Wolverine arc seems serious. This bugs me. If it had been a good, decent death, that's one thing. But instead, it was just to add 'impact'.

Furthermore, it's not just Marvel doing this - the solicits for The Intimates #10 suggest death as well (I think it's Sparky or Kefong), probably to help save the book from the bad sales it's getting. Does the public honestly go for deaths like this? Will killing off some high-school kid really help the series where the excellent writing didn't?

I find it strange that instead of character development or even MEANINGFUL deaths, we just seem to get random deaths.

Rant over. For now.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:27 am (UTC)
arrowisland

New X-Men. My dear, you should know I avoided most of that like the plague ;) Morrison can kiss my behind. It's not like him writing out of character is a new thing. He just gets away with it because "OMG he's teh bestest!!11" Ugh. Amazes me how he got such respect for the train wreck he created.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:32 am (UTC)
lisacharly

I never understood Morrison's hype. To me, it seemed like his work was trying too hard to be edgy, and that everyone thought he was so cool that he could get away with shoddy continuity.

I dropped NXM after the first arc, I think...

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:36 am (UTC)
arrowisland

I feel the same way. Exactly the same. I dropped NXM after the first arc too. I started to pick it up again towards the end (once I knew he was leaving) and it was just more of the same crap. Can't say I'm upset I missed most of it. He had the worst artists as well, which didn't help with me liking the book. Honestly, most of it was just god awful.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:42 am (UTC)
lisacharly

I actually liked Phil Jimenez, but the rest of the artists just seemed to suck.

I couldn't stand it. I think Morrison mistook drugs, sex and gore for 'maturity' way too many times.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:45 am (UTC)
arrowisland

I can't recall liking any of the artists (Jimenez included). Combined with Morrison's craptacular writing, craptacular characters and god awful costumes... it's not a period I like to remember.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:47 am (UTC)
lisacharly

I do admit that I hated Jimenez' Cyke.

Neither is it a period I like to remember - between Austen and Morrison, I'm shocked the franchise didn't shut down.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:50 am (UTC)
arrowisland

Heh, amen. Although when it came to Morrison or Austen, I preferred to read Austen's drivel. At least I didn't want to kill myself after reading. I just felt dirty :p I wasn't enjoying Claremont on X-Treme either. Dark days those were.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:54 am (UTC)
lisacharly

Days of the back issues, those were.

I'd read Austen over Morrison with the exception of the Heroes and Villains arc, which made me cry blood...but at least Austen didn't write absolutely filthy things that got passed off as maturity and 'cutting-edge'. And at least Austen didn't give me very high expectations.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 04:58 am (UTC)
arrowisland

For me the difference was in respect for the characters. Austen's writing was horrid, yes, but he at least respected the characters. Morrison gave me the impression he just couldn't give a shit, he was doing what he wanted and to hell with established history and character traits.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 05:03 am (UTC)
lisacharly

Morrison seemed to have this huge ego that he could do what he wanted with them because he was so great. Austen didn't seem to have much respect for them either, and when people pointed out his errors he dismissed them as 'raving fanboys' who couldn't understand it (no, Austen, I fully fucking understand that you gave my baby a frontal lobotomy, that's not rocket science). Neither of them won very high favor with me.

I think Marvel gave Grant a bit too much reign, and he abused that. I think Austen just didn't care all that much, it was a high-paying job but he couldn't even be shitted to research.

Either way, they both pissed me off.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 05:09 am (UTC)
arrowisland

Oh I have to disagree with you about Austen. He definitely had respect for most of the characters (I won't say all, as I don't believe any writer, ever, has had respect for every character). He didn't always write the best stuff, but he definitely gave a toss and he cared. Unfortunately he didn't always care about the right thing (like oh, continuity), but he cared. That much came across in his interviews at least. For Morrison, all I ever saw is "Emma's sexy, I love her to death, you all have to put up with her now."

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 05:20 am (UTC)
lisacharly

I never got that with Austen - to me, it was that he liked Northstar, Havok, Nightcrawler, Husk and Juggy, and every other character could go to hell. Furthermore, neither he nor Morrison respected the fans, which royally pissed me off - It's one thing to not respect a fictional character, but to dismiss the opinion of a real person as juvenile and stupid without hearing them out is just beyond my scope of likeability. I've heard Chuck's a great guy in real life, but I never once saw that in him during interviews. I saw him bitter and lashing out at the fans, who were 'too obsessed to understand'.

Morrison had no respect for the characters at all, I'll grant you that...but Austen didn't come across as really treating it more than a job to me either. He had, in the interviews at least, a very arrogant persona that refused to look on evidence that so-and-so was right, he was wrong.

My, I'm quite bitchy tonight...

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 05:35 am (UTC)
arrowisland

We're gonna have to agree to disagree then. Mostly because I'm tired and barely able to keep my eyes open to keep arguing with you ;)

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 05:36 am (UTC)
lisacharly

Hey, no prob. :) Agree to disagree it is.

Wed, Jun. 22nd, 2005 07:43 am (UTC)
liabrown

Ha ha, I love your icon. Every time I read that issue, I always cackle at how dumb Havok is for getting outsmarted by my boy Avalanche (who's not the brightest bulb in the socket) ^_^

Oh, and don't get me started on character deaths. Too many of my faves have died.